Re: [R] R usage survey

From: <rex.dwyer_at_syngenta.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 18:19:49 -0500

Harsh, not to worry, but you were wrong to assert that I engaged in any name calling, let alone constant name calling. I also didn't and don't claim to be an authority on survey design.

-----Original Message-----
From: r-help-bounces_at_r-project.org [mailto:r-help-bounces_at_r-project.org] On Behalf Of Harsh Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 4:13 PM
To: Ista Zahn
Cc: r-help_at_r-project.org
Subject: Re: [R] R usage survey

Rex, Please accept my apologies for my inappropriate and utterly juvenile remarks. I got carried away by what I thought was criticism and was quick to respond in a scathing manner. I do accept and apologize for my inability in understanding what was essentially being asked of me.

Thanks to Ista and other members for clarifying what I failed to understand.

I'm now aware that I must submit to appropriately answering questions from potential respondents of the survey.

I must reiterate that "This survey is not sponsored or approved by any organization or company. The purpose of the survey is to satisfy my personal curiosity regarding R usage patterns. Results will be posted to a publicly available weblog; the data will not be used for any other purpose". (Thanks Ista for wording this out. I couldn't have done it better)

Regards,
Harsh Singhal
http://in.linkedin.com/in/harshsinghal

On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 2:11 AM, Ista Zahn <izahn_at_psych.rochester.edu> wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Harsh <singhalblr@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Ista, Spencer and Greg,
> <snip>
> > The information being collected is purely out of personal interest
> > and I have mentioned this earlier.
>
> No, I don't think you did actually. This is the key thing we wanted to
> know up-front, and it's a shame that it took the better part of the
> day before we finally understand why you are conducting the survey.
>
> There is no commercial interest involved.
> >
> > Is it possible that I am interested in this sort of information to
> > better understand R's usage patterns ? In doing so, the survey I am
> > conducting would seem an appropriate way for my requirements.
> >
> > And how does belittling someone on a mailing list help ?
> >
> > If anyone wants the kind of information I am collecting, are there
> > suggestions of better ways of finding it besides the method that I
> > have adopted ? Sure I could scrape the data of LinkedIn pages, or
> > find other
> ways
> > of doing it, but I found this suitable.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 1:27 AM, Spencer Graves
> > <spencer.graves_at_structuremonitoring.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Most surveys done in the US today are done during election
> >> season,
> to
> >> determine how to package candidates to attract votes. Officials
> >> elected under such circumstances spend half their time in office
> >> servicing the bribes that they accepted to pay for the surveys and
> >> the resulting advertising (and the other half soliciting more
> >> bribes er contributions
> for
> >> their next campaign). The best reference on this I know is Thomas
> Ferguson
> >> (1995) Golden Rule (U. Chicago Pr.). It's by now somewhat old but
> >> is
> still
> >> cited by leading researchers.
> >>
> >>
> >> People have a right to be cautious of surveys, because too
> >> rarely today are surveys used for legitimate scientific purposes.
> >> Most often,
> they
> >> are used to defraud the public into doing things that are contrary
> >> to
> their
> >> best interests.
> >>
> >>
> >> Spencer Graves
> >>
> >>
> >> On 3/4/2011 11:37 AM, Ista Zahn wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Now hold on a second Harsh! I was fairly neutral up to this point,
> >>> but this response is totally uncalled for. The problem is that
> >>> despite repeated requests you never clarified the purpose of your research!
> >>> That is all you were asked to do, but rather than responding to
> >>> this inquirly in a straightforward and honest manner you kept
> >>> dodging the question. The most charitable explanation is that you
> >>> just don't understand what information you were being asked to
> >>> provide, which is frustrating but understandable; your last
> >>> response on the other hand is completly out of line. Research
> >>> participants have a right to know the purpose for which their data
> >>> is being collected, and as a researcher you have a responsibility to tell them.
> >>>
> >>> Rex, thank you for generating this discussion. When I first say
> >>> Harsh's original email I was just getting ready to fill out the
> >>> survey. When I saw your response I delayed. Boy am I glad I did!
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>> Ista
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Harsh<singhalblr_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Rex,
> >>>> You're just paranoid and I'm in no way answerable to you. Your
> constant
> >>>> name
> >>>> calling presupposes your own naivete.
> >>>>
> >>>> The survey has a disclaimer and those who wish to respond can do
> >>>> so at their own discretion.
> >>>>
> >>>> Judging by the nature (and number) of respondents, there seem to
> >>>> be a lot of highly qualified people who have no qualms about
> >>>> sharing information regarding their R usage patterns.
> >>>>
> >>>> You can believe what you want and can continue to spin your
> imaginative
> >>>> tales of "industrial espionage" while assuming a position of
> >>>> apparent authority on survey design, Oscar gowns and data
> >>>> security AND my apparent ulterior and "outrageous" motives.
> >>>>
> >>>> You also seem to be an ignorant and misinformed person. Google
> >>>> forms, using which the survey was created DOES NOT log IP
> >>>> addresses of the respondents.
> >>>>
> >>>> And exactly which question in the survey would contribute to
> endangering
> >>>> the
> >>>> professional or personal safety and security of people responding
> >>>> to
> the
> >>>> survey. The information sought is freely available on LinkedIn. I
> merely
> >>>> want to get more descriptive information directly from R users.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you haven't looked at the Survey questions, then refrain from
> making
> >>>> misconstrued remarks.
> >>>>
> >>>> I apologize to the other users of this list for prolonging this
> >>>> frivolous debate here. This will be my last response on the list
> >>>> regarding this topic.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> If anyone has an issue pertaining to the Survey, its outcome and
> >>>> my motives, they can get in touch with me independently and off
> >>>> the list. All
> forms
> >>>> of
> >>>> constructive comments are also welcome.
> >>>>
> >>>> For those interested in sharing their R usage information please
> >>>> visit goo.gl/jw1ig
> >>>>
> >>>> - H
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 04-Mar-2011 10:34 PM,<rex.dwyer_at_syngenta.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You still don't say what organization you are associated with.
> >>>>> Your domain
> >>>>
> >>>> name and e-mail address give no hint. How do we know that "Harsh
> >>>> Singhal" is even a real person? An e-mail address at a university
> >>>> (for example) would go a long way to establish that. Gmail
> >>>> doesn't cut it for me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The preponderance of evidence is that you're just a na´ve person
> >>>>> who would
> >>>>
> >>>> give your own information to anyone who asked. On the other hand,
> >>>> it's possible that you are conducting industrial espionage by
> >>>> recording IP addresses and associating "use cases" with
> >>>> companies. In my opinion,
> the
> >>>> onus is on you to show your bona fides, and you haven't done it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That's all I have to say...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From: Harsh [mailto:singhalblr_at_gmail.com]
> >>>>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 4:19 AM
> >>>>> To: Bill.Venables_at_csiro.au
> >>>>> Cc: Dwyer Rex USRE; r-help_at_r-project.org
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [R] R usage survey
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The R usage survey goo.gl/jw1ig<http://goo.gl/jw1ig> has been
> updated
> >>>>> with
> >>>>
> >>>> the following changes:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Addition of -
> >>>>> Disclaimer :
> >>>>> This data will not be used for any commercial purposes Do not
> >>>>> include any personally identifiable information
> >>>>> Contact: Harsh Singhal (singhalblr AT gmail DOT com) for any
> >>>>> queries
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Removal of -
> >>>>> Name field
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My primary purpose in conducting this survey is -
> >>>>> - Find multiple use cases for various R packages
> >>>>> - Understand the nature of work when R is being used in Academia
> >>>>> /
> >>>>
> >>>> Commercial settings
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - The kind of technologies that are being used in conjunction
> >>>>> with R
> >>>>
> >>>> (popularity of usage of Python with R, and what purpose does
> >>>> using Python
> >>>> solve)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The outcome of this analysis will be published on my blog (in
> >>>>> the process
> >>>>
> >>>> of being created).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There is absolutely no commercial purpose behind collecting this
> >>>>
> >>>> information and as earlier stated, this information will not be
> >>>> shared with personally identifiable information.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you once again Mr. Dwyer and Mr. Venables for raising very
> import
> >>>>
> >>>> questions.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I thank the R users who have already filled in the survey
> goo.gl/jw1ig<
> >>>>
> >>>> http://goo.gl/jw1ig> and request more to do so.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>> Harsh Singhal
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 7:41 AM,<Bill.Venables_at_csiro.au> wrote:
> >>>>> No. That's not answering the question. ALL surveys are for
> >>>>> collecting
> >>>>
> >>>> information.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The substantive issue is what purpose do you have in seeking
> >>>>> this
> >>>>
> >>>> information in the first place and what are you going to do with
> >>>> it
> when
> >>>> you
> >>>> get it?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Do you have some commercial purpose in mind? If so, what is it?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: r-help-bounces_at_r-project.org<mailto:
> r-help-bounces_at_r-project.org>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> [mailto:r-help-bounces_at_r-project.org<mailto:
> r-help-bounces_at_r-project.org>]
> >>>> On Behalf Of Harsh
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sent: Friday, 4 March 2011 1:13 AM
> >>>>> To: rex.dwyer_at_syngenta.com<mailto:rex.dwyer_at_syngenta.com>
> >>>>> Cc: r-help_at_r-project.org<mailto:r-help_at_r-project.org>
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [R] R usage survey
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi Rex and useRs,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The purpose of the survey has been mentioned on the survey link
> >>>>
> >>>> goo.gl/jw1ig<http://goo.gl/jw1ig>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> but I will also reproduce it here.
> >>>>> - Geographical distribution of R users
> >>>>> - Application areas where R is being used
> >>>>> - Supporting technology being used along with R
> >>>>> - Academic background distribution of R users
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The potential personally identifiable information such as name
> >>>>> and
> >>>>
> >>>> employer
> >>>>>
> >>>>> name are optional fields. Actually all the fields in the survey
> >>>>> are optional.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Some of the analysis output(s) could be along the lines of :-
> >>>>> - Usage statistics of various R packages
> >>>>> - Distribution of R users across countries/cities
> >>>>> - Mapping various applications to packages
> >>>>> - Text Mining of the responses to create informative word clouds
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Personally, I am excited about the kind of data I will receive
> through
> >>>>
> >>>> this
> >>>>>
> >>>>> survey and the various insights that could be derived. As
> >>>>> already
> >>>>
> >>>> mentioned,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> the results will be shared with the community.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you Rex for raising an important point. It is indeed
> >>>>> necessary for
> >>>>
> >>>> me
> >>>>>
> >>>>> to personally assure the user community that the results will be
> shared
> >>>>> in
> >>>>
> >>>> a
> >>>>>
> >>>>> manner that will not contain any personally identifiable information.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Those who wish to gain access to the raw data will be provided
> >>>>> with
> all
> >>>>
> >>>> the
> >>>>>
> >>>>> fields but not the name and employer name fields.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just out of curiosity : It is possible to get name, employer
> >>>>> name,
> >>>>
> >>>> location,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> usage information and academic background details when searching
> >>>>> for
> R
> >>>>
> >>>> users
> >>>>>
> >>>>> on LinkedIn and the many R related groups there.
> >>>>> Does this also provide potential opportunities for misuse and
> >>>>> "outrageous"
> >>>>> analyses, since almost anyone can get onto LinkedIn and access
> >>>>> user
> >>>>
> >>>> profiles
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you for your interest and support.
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>> Harsh
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 8:02 PM,<rex.dwyer_at_syngenta.com<mailto:
> >>>>
> >>>> rex.dwyer_at_syngenta.com>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Harsh, "Suitably analyzed" for whose purposes? One man's "suitable"
> is
> >>>>>> another's "outrageous". That's why people want to see the gowns
> >>>>>> at
> the
> >>>>>> Oscars. Under what auspices are you conducting this survey?
> >>>>>> What do you intend to do with it? You don't give any assurance
> >>>>>> that the results you post won't have personally identifiable
> >>>>>> information. I don't get the impression that you know much
> >>>>>> about survey design.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From:
> >>>>>> r-help-bounces_at_r-project.org<mailto:r-help-bounces_at_r-project.or
> >>>>>> g>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> [mailto:r-help-bounces_at_r-project.org<mailto:
> r-help-bounces_at_r-project.org>]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Behalf Of Harsh
> >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 5:53 AM
> >>>>>> To: r-help_at_r-project.org<mailto:r-help_at_r-project.org>
> >>>>>> Subject: [R] R usage survey
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi R users,
> >>>>>> I request members of the R community to consider filling a
> >>>>>> short survey regarding the use of R.
> >>>>>> The survey can be found at http://goo.gl/jw1ig
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Please accept my apologies for posting here for a non-technical
> >>>>>> reason.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The data collected will be suitably analyzed and I'll post a
> >>>>>> link to the results in the coming weeks.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thank you all for your interest and for sharing your R usage
> >>>>>> information.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>> Harsh Singhal
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ______________________________________________
> >>>>>> R-help_at_r-project.org<mailto:R-help_at_r-project.org> mailing list
> >>>>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> >>>>>> PLEASE do read the posting guide
> >>>>>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> >>>>>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> message may contain confidential information. If you are not
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>
> >>>> designated
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> recipient, please notify the sender immediately, and delete the
> >>>>>> original
> >>>>
> >>>> and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> any copies. Any use of the message by you is prohibited.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ______________________________________________
> >>>>> R-help_at_r-project.org<mailto:R-help_at_r-project.org> mailing list
> >>>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> >>>>> PLEASE do read the posting guide
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> message may contain confidential information. If you are not the
> >>>>
> >>>> designated recipient, please notify the sender immediately, and
> >>>> delete the original and any copies. Any use of the message by you
> >>>> is prohibited.
> >>>>
> >>>> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ______________________________________________
> >>>> R-help_at_r-project.org mailing list
> >>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> >>>> PLEASE do read the posting guide
> >>>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> >>>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
> >>>>
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Ista Zahn
> Graduate student
> University of Rochester
> Department of Clinical and Social Psychology http://yourpsyche.org
>

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