Re: [Rd] if(--as-cran)?

From: Duncan Murdoch <murdoch.duncan_at_gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2012 09:10:06 -0400

This post contains two incorrect statements. Since Martin is too busy to post a retraction, I will point them out:

  --timings and --as-cran do not set _R_CHECK_TIMINGS_ in the same way.

As far as I recall, nobody has suggested that package writers be limited to two choices for test suites. I certainly haven't.

Duncan Murdoch

On 05/09/2012 6:25 AM, Martin Maechler wrote:
> >>>>> Deepayan Sarkar <deepayan.sarkar_at_gmail.com>
> >>>>> on Wed, 5 Sep 2012 11:49:37 +0530 writes:
>
> > On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Duncan Murdoch
> > <murdoch.duncan_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 12-09-04 8:19 PM, Kasper Daniel Hansen wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Duncan Murdoch <murdoch.duncan_at_gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On 04/09/2012 5:42 PM, Dirk Eddelbuettel wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 4 September 2012 at 17:26, Duncan Murdoch wrote:
> >>>>> | On 04/09/2012 5:14 PM, Dirk Eddelbuettel wrote:
> >>>>> | > An add-on argument to the already established option --as-cran may
> >>>>> be
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> | > best.
> >>>>> | >
> >>>>> | > And to iterate, what bugs me is that for _me_ on _my_ machine
> >>>>> developing _my_
> >>>>> | > package I have remember how to enable what is now (as per CRAN's
> >>>>> decree)
> >>>>> | > "non-standard behaviour" of full testing. I fully agree with what
> >>>>> Terry had
> >>>>> | > said: more tests are better (when we develop). I want the full
> >>>>> suite
> >>>>> at my
> >>>>> | > end; that is after all why we wrote it!
> >>>>> |
> >>>>> | You don't have to remember that, you need to figure it out once, write
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> | script that sets the environment variables that enable it, and then
> >>>>> you
> >>>>> | can forget it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are
> >>>>> not."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The main test script long had exactly such a setting; I wrote what I
> >>>>> wrote
> >>>>> because it is _still the wrong way around_ and as I happen to have added
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> unit tests this weekend _having suffered through precisely this
> >>>>> setting_.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But we are on different wavelengths here and I evidently do not get my
> >>>>> point
> >>>>> across to you. And as you are the one who could make a change where it
> >>>>> matters, I have no choice but to rest my case in frustration.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> If you want to give up, then give up, but then don't complain about the
> >>>> current behaviour. If you want to fix it, then continue the discussion.
> >>>>
> >>>> You're right that we're on different wavelengths. If you want some tests
> >>>> to
> >>>> run at home but not on CRAN, then somewhere there has to be a
> >>>> conditional.
> >>>> I'm suggesting that the conditional should be "if there's a tight time
> >>>> limit, skip this".
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't remember if this was your suggestion, but someone has suggested
> >>>> "if
> >>>> we're running with the --as-cran option, skip this" and others have
> >>>> suggested "if we're running on CRAN, skip this". I don't see why you
> >>>> find
> >>>> my suggestion so objectionable. If you want, I'll repeat why I find the
> >>>> other two suggestions objectionable.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I agree with Duncan that having an option long/short makes more sense
> >>> than with/without cran, as long as cran sets that option to be short.
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I would also prefer a command line switch to R CMD check to an
> >>> environment variable, but I'll be very happy with a standardized
> >>> environment variable.
> >>
> >>
> >> I honestly don't see the need for a standardized variable. I've told you
> >> how to detect that you are running --as-cran; if that isn't sufficient
> >> information, then you, the package author, need to set up something more
> >> elaborate, and assume that if it's not set up, then someone else (maybe
> >> CRAN) is running the test.
>
> > So maybe documenting that (_R_CHECK_TIMINGS_) more formally in R-exts
> > would be sufficient?
>
> > -Deepayan
>
> yes and no.
> As Duncan said very early, --as-cran is just turning on several
> already existing options, one of them being the
> _R_CHECK_TIMINGS_ -- which you can *also* enable by --timings.
>
> So, checking for _R_CHECK_TIMINGS_ is *not* checking for
> the presence of --as-cran !
> .. in the sense that it is necessary but not sufficient.
> Also, if I run the "long checks" I may still want to use
> --timings. For me as package developer, the timings may be even more
> important in the "long" than in the "short" checks case.
>
> So, one solution that is little work would be that --as-cran
> sets an *extra* environment variable that is *only* set by
> --as-cran, but by no other command line switch.
>
> Still a pity that it seems people want to live in a 0/1
> setting when it would be very natural to adopt a 0/1/2/3
> (or so) one.
> It's a bit like prefering verbose = FALSE/TRUE as argument to
> an R function where eventually I often found that using a
> tracing = 0/1/2 (or then 'verbose' = 0/1/2 which is almost
> back compatible to FALSE/TRUE)
> was more useful.
>
>
>
> >> I asked the CRAN powers-that-be about the possibility of querying the amount
> >> of time remaining before a timeout; since the different platforms all use
> >> different mechanisms to enforce a timeout, that's not really practical. So
> >> the best you could hope for is to know that a timeout is in effect. Before
> >> I wrote any code, I'd need to hear why --as-cran detection isn't sufficient.
>
> I agree that *reliable* --as-cran detection solves the OP's
> and most other correspondents problem.
> But as argued above, _R_CHECK_TIMINGS_ is not sufficient.
>
> Martin



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