# Re: [R] Within-subject factors in lme

From: Kim Mouridsen <kim.mouridsen_at_gmail.com>
Date: Fri 12 Jan 2007 - 17:25:28 GMT

Dear Thilo

With lme I can get output for the effect of A which is very similar to the aov output using

lme( y ~ A + B, random=~ 1|S/A )

but here I have cheated by not including factor B in the 'random=' terms. But the output from

anova( lme( y ~ A + B, random=~ 1|S/A ) )

is

```            numDF denDF  F-value p-value
(Intercept)     1    54 388.4006  <.0001
B                2    54 154.0193  <.0001
A                1    13   4.4581  0.0547

```

where the last line appears equivalent to the aov output:

Error: Subject:Treatment

```          Df  Sum Sq Mean Sq F value  Pr(>F)
A         1 0.66074 0.66074  4.4581 0.05467 .
```
Residuals 13 1.92676 0.14821

But I still need to account for the random S:B interaction.

I can see a similar issue has been discussed earlier, see eg

Here, lme( y ~ A*B, random=~1|S ) was also suggested (essentially), but this gives quite different results from aov and the lme example above. In this particular case I get

```            numDF denDF  F-value p-value
(Intercept)     1    67 388.3976  <.0001
B               2    67 104.8436  <.0001
A               1    67  10.3707   0.002

```

I have seen instances of something like
random=list(S=pdBlocked(list(pdIdent(~A-1)..., but I can't get this to work (and I have no idea what this does).

Best regards,
Kim.

2007/1/12, Thilo Kellermann <tkellermann@ukaachen.de>:
> Dear Kim,
> as far as I understandyour problem correct the specification of the model in
> lme is:
>
> lme( fixed=y ~ A*B, random=~1|S)
>
> Thilo
>
> On Friday 12 January 2007 15:54, Kim Mouridsen wrote:
> > Dear R-users
> >
> > I'm considering a repeated measures experiment where two
> > within-subject factors A (2 levels) and B (3 levels) have been
> > measured for each of 14 subjects, S. I wish to test the effect of
> > factor A. I know that a variance component model with random effects
> > S, S:A, S:B and S:A:B can be fitted using aov:
> >
> > aov( y ~ A*B + Error(S/(A*B)) )
> >
> > If there is no significant interaction, the test for the effect of A
> > is carried out in the S:A error strata.
> >
> > How can a test for the effect of A be performed using lme from the nlme
> > package?
> >
> > ( lme( y ~ A*B, random=~1|S/(A*B)) is apparently not correct )
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your advice.
> > Kim.
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list
> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> > PLEASE do read the posting guide
> > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal,
> > self-contained, reproducible code.
>
> --
> ________________________
> Thilo Kellermann
> Department of Psychiatry und Psychotherapy
> RWTH Aachen University
> Pauwelstr. 30
> 52074 Aachen
> Tel.: +49 (0)241 / 8089977
> Fax.: +49 (0)241 / 8082401
> E-Mail: tkellermann@ukaachen.de
>
>

R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. Received on Sat Jan 13 04:32:27 2007

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