Re: [R] I never made any assumption athat anyone had any obligation to do anything

From: Gabor Grothendieck <>
Date: Sat 28 May 2005 - 10:56:00 EST

Perhaps the list would work better if posters who do not follow the posting guide are nicely told that they will more likely get helpful replies if they read and follow the posting guide and, in particular, provide a reproducible example.

If the poster does not follow that advice then the poster can just be ignored.

This thread pointed out that even though the original poster did not follow the guide and ignored direct suggestions that he still got his answer. The problem is that he felt insulted in the process. If the above procedure were followed he might not have received an answer to his problem but there would have been less animosity all around and maybe that's more important.

Perhaps the posting guide could even suggest such an approach.

On 5/27/05, James MacDonald <> wrote:
> To add to Spencer's reply, I have two things.
> First, if you look back at your earlier list entries, Uwe asked you
> politely at least twice to read the posting guide. The reason for this
> is that the posting guide gives guidance to allow you to post questions
> that are clear enough to answer, and points you to other sources of
> information that you might not already know about. It was only after you
> appeared to ignore his advice that he 'yelled' at you.
> Second, you ultimately learned several things. As far as I can tell, Uwe
> did answer your questions, but more importantly, you learned how to
> interact on a list where you get free advice on how to use free software
> (the operative term here being *free*). Isn't that better than being
> ignored and not learning anything?
> Best,
> Jim
> James W. MacDonald
> Affymetrix and cDNA Microarray Core
> University of Michigan Cancer Center
> 1500 E. Medical Center Drive
> 7410 CCGC
> Ann Arbor MI 48109
> 734-647-5623
> >>> Spencer Graves <> 05/27/05 5:34 PM >>>
> Hello, Erithid:
> I'm very sorry you feel you got yelled at first thing in the
> morning.
> Please try not to take it personally, though I know that may be
> difficult. After one superficially insulting reply, I just laughed and
> told my manager, "Look what I learned for exposing myself to ridicule!"
> My philosophy on this was expressed last December and
> subsequently
> added to the "fortunes" pacakage, from which I will quote for you now:
> > library(fortunes)
> > fortune("Graves")
> Our great-great grandchilren as yet unborn may read some of the stupid
> questions
> and/or answers that I and perhaps others give from time to time. I'd
> rather get
> flamed for saying something stupid in public on this list than to
> continue to
> provide substandard service to the people with whom I work because I
> perpetrated
> the same mistake in an environment in which no one questioned so
> effectively my
> errors.
> -- Spencer Graves (in a discussion on whether answers on R-help
> should be more
> polite)
> R-help (December 2004)
> I've heard from some of the best on this listserve that it
> happens to
> everyone. That doesn't make it right. If you can learn to accept this
> as a different subculture operating by different rules of diplomacy, you
> might get more out of this list, do better work with whatever you are
> attempting to do, and enjoy life more. (My wife's middle name is Rose.
> When she gives me a hard time about something, I just try to listen
> and console myself with the thought that, "If I want to sleep in a bed
> of roses, I must get used to the thorns.")
> Best Wishes,
> spencer graves
> BJ wrote:
> > I just asked a question. If I was too vague, then i am sorry. I dont
> > expect anyone to help me, but I thought that it was ok to put the
> > question out there in case someone wanted to help me. I didnt expect
> > abject hostility for it. Human decency was the only thing I did
> expect.
> > If my question was a pain,badly formatted, or too juvinile, then i
> have
> > no problem being ignored.I asked a question that the archives did not
> > satisfactorily answer. I appreciate the help of the poeple on this
> list
> > as they are an invaluable resource, especially since the R
> documentation
> > is sketchy at times. I am sorry for wasting everyones time. I just
> dont
> > like being yelled at first thing in the morning for asking for help on
> a
> > help list. See you all around ~Erithid
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > mailing list
> >
> > PLEASE do read the posting guide!
> >
> ______________________________________________
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> mailing list PLEASE do read the posting guide! Received on Sat May 28 11:01:39 2005

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