From: Leo Gürtler <leog_at_anicca-vijja.de>

Date: Tue 13 Dec 2005 - 03:26:44 EST

designohne:8 -0.763 0.304 0.699

Date: Tue 13 Dec 2005 - 03:26:44 EST

Dear list members,

the following hlm was constructed:

hlm <- groupedData(laut ~ design | grpzugeh, data = imp.not.I)

the grouped data object is located at and can be downloaded:

www.anicca-vijja.de/lg/hlm_example.Rdata

The following works:

library(nlme)

summary( fitlme <- lme(hlm) )

with output:

...

AIC BIC logLik

425.3768 465.6087 -197.6884

Random effects:

Formula: ~design | grpzugeh

Structure: General positive-definite

StdDev Corr

(Intercept) 0.3772478 (Intr) dsgn:8 dsgn:7 designmit:8 0.6776543 0.183 designohne:7 0.6619983 -0.964 0.086 designohne:8 1.0680576 -0.966 0.077 1.000 Residual 1.3468816 Fixed effects: laut ~ design Value Std.Error DF t-value p-value (Intercept) 3.857143 0.2917529 102 13.220579 0.0000 designmit:8 -0.285714 0.4417919 102 -0.646717 0.5193designohne:7 -0.107143 0.4383878 102 -0.244402 0.8074 designohne:8 0.607143 0.5408713 102 1.122527 0.2643 Correlation:

(Intr) dsgnm:8 dsgn:7 designmit:8 -0.451 designohne:7 -0.775 0.363

designohne:8 -0.763 0.304 0.699

Standardized Within-Group Residuals:

Min Q1 Med Q3 Max -2.5074669 -0.4530573 0.1755326 0.5837670 2.3700004

Number of Observations: 112

Number of Groups: 7

The following does _not_ work and leads to a convergence error:

fitlme1 <- lme(laut ~ design, random = ~ design | grpzugeh, data = hlm) Fehler in lme.formula(laut ~ design, random = ~design | grpzugeh, data = hlm) :

iteration limit reached without convergence (9)

This was tried with

R : Copyright 2005, The R Foundation for Statistical Computing Version 2.2.0 (2005-10-06 r35749)

Using another R version (2.1.0, also windows with nlme version built under R 2.1.1) , it works. Thus, what's the problem then? I tried without the random effects, i.e.

random = ~ 1 | grpzugeh

This works. Comparing both calls on the version R2.1.0 that goes well, the following differences in the output of the random effects can be identified:

summary( fitlme <- lme(hlm) )

*<-->
*

Random effects:

...

Structure: General positive-definite

</-->

compared to

summary(lme(laut ~ design, random = ~ design | grpzugeh, data = hlm))

*<-->
*

Random effects:

...

Structure: General positive-definite, Log-Cholesky parametrization
</-->

The estimates of the fixed effects are similar, the S.E.s not. The random effects are different, too. AIC/BIC/logLik are slightly different.

Thus my question:

- Do I have overseen a switch for the structure of the random effects? Is something wrong with the call/ formular?
- What is the cause of the convergence error which seems to depend on the built of R/nlme?

Thank you very much. Best wishes,

leo gürtler

-- email: leog@anicca-vijja.de www: http://www.anicca-vijja.de/ ______________________________________________ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.htmlReceived on Tue Dec 13 03:44:59 2005

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